Monday, August 31, 2015
Sunday, August 30, 2015
Article about someone's first time at Dagorhir
I found this article about a person's first time fighting with Dagorhir. It was written back in 1985 so the game was a little different. Still it is a neat perspective on the game.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/issues/issue_173/5413-Weekend-Warrior
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/issues/issue_173/5413-Weekend-Warrior
Thursday, August 13, 2015
Wednesday, August 12, 2015
Trial by Combat- Could this be the best defense against frivolous lawsuits?
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/08/10/game-thrones-fan-seeks-trial-combat-settle-lawsuit
Frivolous lawsuits have become all the rage across America. Maybe the best answer is Trial by Combat. Let's see if they have the stones to get medieval in their pursuit of greed. My guess is that if more people demanded this then there wouldn't be so many frivolous lawsuits. No one is willing to put their life on the line if they know what they are going after is bull crap in the first place.
Frivolous lawsuits have become all the rage across America. Maybe the best answer is Trial by Combat. Let's see if they have the stones to get medieval in their pursuit of greed. My guess is that if more people demanded this then there wouldn't be so many frivolous lawsuits. No one is willing to put their life on the line if they know what they are going after is bull crap in the first place.
Tuesday, August 11, 2015
Non-Combatants-What do they do while the fighting is going on?
I was on Dagohir unmoderated the other day when I attempted to answer this ladies question about the difference between Dagorhir and Belegarth. What happened was real interesting. The thread was hijacked by a discussion about the fate of non-combatants in a game that is typically dominated by combat alone. The truth is that we all have people in our lives that don't live for combat, but we care about them and want them to be able to enjoy them selves as well. While I definitely ran into our fair share of nay sayers I think that the discussion was very positive over all.
Lindsay-What are the differences between Dagorhir and Belegarth?
Garren-We play judo in Dag
Kyle-Nerd dramThere are small differences in weapon dimensions and weight minimums. Bel has a tiered grappling system for armored fighters. Dag requires you keep one foot on the ground during shield kicks. Bel has no healing component. It's all little stuff.
Tiffini-Dagorhirim have a better name for their "camp followers" - Dagorhoes
Joe-Nerd drama, nerd politics, people who have power still being butthurt about things that butthurt them years ago /thread
Shane-The real answer? Your location, that's about it. East coast is Dag, west is Bel
Joe-Midwest is mecca of all fighting
Tiffini-Hey! This is unmod! No serious answers here! tongue emotico
Garren-^exactly
Shane-Guts speaks truth.
Tiffini-On a serious note, though, as someone who cross-games both, the differences are very minor. Grappling rules are different (them: equal armor can initiate grapple, us: any armor at all cannot initiate grapple). There's two or three others, but I can't remember them right now.
Joe-Once upon a time, a guy and his people wanted more power in the determination of Dag. He tried pushing his will through a cult of personality. Another guy, who happened to be running Dag, took great offense and sought to quell the issues. Shit escalated.
Dexter-Dagorhir is a fighting game with a drinking problem; Belegarth is a drinking game with a fighting problem. Both of them, however, are gay and you should avoid them at all costs.
Finney-One is xenophobic, the other has well-organized knighthood groups. They both have terrible garb.
Ryan-my unit completely shreds your theory apart
Ben-It's like the SCA had mentally retarded children and they squabble
Dexter-Carinhold is just in the wrong game Brodash.
Dexter-And Amptgard is just their lesbian little sister
Shane- It's true, Cairnhold would have a shit load of fun fighting the Uruk-Hai or the EBF.
Ryan-Sorry we were too drunk and ended up here
Ashley-Amptgard is the major different one
John- play them all and just be good despite the rules (I in fact do not play them all)
Chan-Be more specific.Rules differences, geography, common game types. What are we talking here.
Spencer-They're both not Amptgard, so what does it matter?
John-Dagorhir has more beards. Belegarth has more quick tubes
Hawk-They are basically the same game, the fund is over but some folks don't know that yet.
Dexter-Why can't weee be friends? Why can't weee be friends?
Julian-Minimal rules differences. The rest is geographical, regardless of game. There are hardcore fighting units in both games, just as there are hardcore partying units in both. Main thing is where you live. There is a certain style to fighting on the east
Josh-There is also a difference in tactics, bel tends to focus on being a good single fighter while dag tends to focus on having the best unit that works together. Flails seem to be more common in bel than in dag but that's more of a regional thing. Both groups are ill informed of the other on average.
Chris-The biggest difference is Dagorhir doesn't feel the need to constantly remind Bel it exists on their boards.
Nathan-Facebook killed the feud. Back in the day Dag put a block on PMs for members for fear that Bel would steal all Dag's members. Then we found Facebook and said fuck you. And (big surprise here) people still play Dag. Most involved in the split politics no longer hold any official position of power in DBGA. Bel doesn't have power in the same way anyway.
Steve-The big difference is that nobody really freaking cares and there are maybe two or three rules differences that actually influences play. Spear Flex in one game is 45 while the other is 90, Shield Checking Quadrant(???) is slightly different (rear checking? I don't remember halp), and No Healing Poem in bel, as far as I remember.
Lindsay-For unmod, this has been surprisingly helpful.
Josh-Well Belegarth and Dagorhir are both Tolkien elvish (I think one is sindarin the other is wood elvish but don't quote me on that) and they both translate to "battle lord" The rules were written by the same guy for Pete's sake
Shannon-lets see what the "official" take is yeah? As of right now, the websites state that Dagorhir: combines fast-paced full-contact combat simulation with elements of live action role-playing. Dagorhir combines elements of both history and fantasy. Dagorhir is both a sport and a game. Dagorhir’s participants experience their fantasies on a variety of levels. where as belegarth is: Belegarth Medieval Combat Society is a fun, safe, and inexpensive sport where participants wear medieval or fantasy-themed clothing and fight with foam-padded weapons. So I guess one could say, the focus is different? /shrug.
Gam-Fought in both for years. Been a realm leader in both. The rule differences are arbitrary at most. The real difference is administrative. Dag is a regional oligarchy, Bel is parliamentary republic
John-more yelling in bel.. Dag nerds too quite on the field unless they are in positions of authority in a unit
Ryan-....you've never seen me....I ran around rag screaming I aint gay but i'll suck that dick for a solid two days of rag
Dan-Biggest difference is that Dag has a prolific unmod board.
Lane-The actual reason for the split was that Kegg and company insisted that Aratar and Graymael hand over their personal copyrights to the new Dagorhir board that they wanted to set up. Kegg was bent out of shape that the edition of the rules he spent all winter rewriting and organizing was just an edition/revision of Graymael's MoA.
Nathan-That's the Dag-positive version. The Dag-negative version is that Kegg was authorized to write a draft for a new charter, that got leaked prematurely before he'd edited it much (he copied the SCA charter), people went apeshit, Dag started imposing MORE
Steve-Oh, and the only thing I think I know of is you don't have to do Copyright Paper Bullshittery to form a Belegarth realm or something or use their name.
James-Culture is very different. Bel events have a lot more of individual groups hanging out and partying with their own. …
Khan-Stuff happened before 80% of fighters started fighting the games are the same. Oh wait, this is unmod..... Bel has real fighters and Dag is a bunch of RP queers (did I unmod correctly?)
Gamhain-Rule of thumb: Is there a foam fighting event nearby? Cool. Go to it, hit people, and drink beer.
Krista-What this guy said. ^^^
Mike-Not much the split was over politics and most people don't even remember why. The rules are virtually the same save for a few minor differences
Lane-"Sign away your copyrights or else we're picking up our toys and going home" isn't quite politics.
Tom-^Only one group is still so insecure as to have multiple primary-document, whiny essays still up
Hawk-It saddens me that people still harbor such strong feelings about it. No one involved in the whole shitstorm gets to wear a halo. Your point of view about who was the worse actor in all that mess tends to cloud things to fit your own narative.
Craig-They are both LARPs that have nothing for non fighters to do during the days at events?
Lane-Worst response yet ^^
Craig-This from a foam jockey that has no woman in thier life?^^
Lane-Actually, I have no ill will towards the people currently involved in the other game. But I'm no more likely to feel charitably towards its founders than I am towards Tom T. Hall.
Chris-lol Wtf
Craig-LMAO. Just truth in advertising Chris. If either of the groups had things for non fighters we might have more estrogen at events. I like estrogen. That's why I found a lady that does bardic, sews garb and enjoys the night life at events. I just wish my foam jockying had more for her to be interested in.
Shannon-confused_rev emoticon.... you want to have those activities to attract women...how about have those activities because they're cool. also, Rag did a pretty good job of having activities for this, IMO, but I'm not a non-com. /shrug
Chris-Ha Living the dream.. the games which aren't larps are about fighting. Women can be amazing fighters as well and not only is this proven by the badass women I know in game but throughout history. If a girl or guy doesn't want to play that's fine too
Craig-Yes Shannon Rag did a good job of that but that is one event in how many? And I want those activities to draw in ANY non fighter that might have fun in the group. I personally am more than just a fighter. I brew. I make cordials as well. Mat, you are following the belief that the game is just fighting. There is much more to the game than swinging foam. Or am I wrong and believing the foam fighters are more than just dumb grunts?
Mike-I have friends on both side and attend events held by both groups. The rules are virtually the same. There are good people and assholes in both groups. The reasons for the split are before my time.
Chris-Craig there are plenty of games that focus on larpy stuff. I suggest playing those for the extras you want. Dag has always been about fighting and I don't see an issue with it. In fact the extras kinda stagnate our growth amongst mundanes who would sword fight but don't want to play dress up. I feel the activities we currently have are great and any extra would set us back.
Chris-Also your individual unit is free to delve as deep into whatever you can think of so where there is a will there is a way
Craig-Okay. I get what the majority seems to feel. I will treat it appropriately and only attend local fighter practices as a way of getting some excercise. Pity that I only get one outlet for my creativity.
Lane-Craig, both games have their share of stick jocks and those who want more. I wouldn't turn my back on either one.
Finney-Craig, let the non-coms make activities for themselves. There's no magic button, if somebody isn't interested, they're not interested. A class on how to embroider like a proper lady isn't going to change that. If you have to drag your significant other..
Matt-Wtf are you talking about i never said its just about fighting lol dont put words in my mouth fucktard
Shannon-in general I fall on the stick-jock side of the debate, but I DO think great artwork (and brewing!) should be a part of our games. I think the issue comes from the "tranditional LARP" v. "combat game/LARP" expectations. Our game doesn't i..
Craig-Weekend chill and grills are some of the best parties. An herbal dying session was a blast.
Mike- I can see both sides of the discussion. A larger proportion of people go to events because they want to fight and party. If they didn't find that when they got there then that event would cease to exist. Hell the game is in large part about the fighting. Its fun, it is good exercise, and most of the people who come are like family. I also realize that not everyone enjoys the same things. I have a wife and she thinks that we are a bunch of nerds beating on one another with foam. She won't come to an event with me because she doesn't want the kids around drunks. I'm sure that she is not alone in that opinion. I guess the best way of dealing with this is for the non-coms to build their own community that does things that non-coms like to do. I think a lot of units try to accomplish this and at events I've seen contests awarding prizes for non-com skills.
Hawk-Personally, I feel as though we should all be trying to figure out ways to entertain noncoms, while this is a fighting game, fighters with significant others who don't fight, fall out because their mate has no interest. It's more of a retention thing. The better we do at including noncoms the better overall retention is for the sport.
Gamhain-^ THANK YOU. I fight. I merchant. I drink like a viking. But my wife and kid are bored to tears at events, and as any married person will tell you, it's not realistic to expect to go to many weekend-long events when your family doesn't want to go with you.
Jake-We could always pull more focus to the arts and sciences. Or we could gather some coin and raise some bleachers for the onlookers to have a proper seating. (that'd be pretty great, especially for photographers and familys)
Gamhain-A&S idea is more what I was thinking. Give non-coms some actual activities to engage in, rather than just getting a sunburn while their SO dork-fights.s Masque Beltannia does this spectacularly. They have maypole dances, balefires, May Queen pageant, dancing, games…. If you take Dagorhir, and add even just a DASH of Ren-Faire activities, we will bring in (and keep) SO many more people.
Nik-Have you watched nerds fight? It's not that interesting if you aren't a fighter yourself. "Gather some coin" LOL you're talking to the wrong group. Mention a $3 hike in Rag fees and people lose their shit and say attendance will plummet.
Jake-Yeah it's pretty pathetic. People en masse' don't seem to want to put any money towards their hobby.
Nik-There's a reason that SCA maintains members for decades, it's because there's shit to do other than wreck and poison your body. Mind you, there's plenty of wrecking and poisoning. But at the end of the day that's only so fulfilling.
Jake-I totally agree. There is, and can be, so much more to this culture that can, and should, be separately focused on. We can only lead by example though and I feel like in small steps we're kind of getting towards that, in some cases. For instance, and I know these are small things, plastidipping, That was rare 5 years ago now we're stepping up our game in that regard. That and some campsites are really putting their best foot forward to improving the look and feel of the game. Certainly we can't crack the whip but I think we can all take these notes to heart and lead by example. Improve your game. Get gud, and more will follow.
Mike-I agree with that statement. I only make it to about 3 events a year basically because that is about the max I can get away with without pissing off my spouse. She doesn't come because its boring for her, but she does like going to rent-faires with me. Throw in a maypole dance for the kids, maybe have a crafting class for the non-coms, have some live music and bam everybody is happy. Like Gamhain said it is about retention. A lot of us have spouses and we want them to be happy and have fun as well I don't see this happening over night and to be honest it will probably be units that start us in the right direction. But baby steps in the right direction and we can make it a better atmosphere for everyone that loves the game.
Nik- I think you're right to an extent. Seeing units like Sowerwine, Germania, Rome, or Frostblade really inspires people to do better. But there's also a huge backlash of people that are vehemently against putting in any effort whatsoever to make this game look good.
Gamhain-^ That's also the reason alot of folk in Dag / Bel wind up going to the SCA. The only event my wife has ever enjoyed was Masque Beltannia, because there was shit for her to do. ...If I went SCA, I know she'd come to more events (and thus more events I myself could attend) because there are games, dancing, arts and crafts, classes....One of the reasons Dag is so slow to improve -in any/all aspects- is because we only seem to cater to the broke, semi-alcoholic 20-something demographic. While the people who get older, have more disposable income, and start having kids who WOULD get into Dag, are moving to groups who have a focus on more than just "git drunk n hit stuff”
Nik-Dag is currently viewed, even by some of the leadership, as a game for brokeass 20-somethings who have no interest in medieval history or really even in the fantasy literature the game was based upon to begin with. They write off their min-effort concessionary garb as "fantasy" without basis so they can come hit people with sticks and get alcohol poisoning. Then they talk shit about people that are interested in making the game something more than that. I love the game dynamic, the speed and intensity of it. I love the people I've grown up with in the game. But honestly at 28 sometimes I have a very hard time shaking the feeling that I've outgrown it. Once you have a family and a savings account, grubby wrap pants and hangovers lose their appeal. There needs to be more content, and their are people willing to make that happen. We should encourage them.
Mike-Here is the thing when people are young, unattached college age then many of them want to do is party and fight. There is nothing wrong with that. I was the same way at that age. But then people get families, jobs, responsibilities. They also get experience, resources, and know how. We need to retain people with resources and know how to mentor the fun loving stick jocks and to keep the ball rolling. I love that the game is available to everyone. One of my big turn offs for SCA is that is takes a sizable financial investment to immerse yourself into it. But I still think that we can do more than just be stick jocks.
Gamhain-Only real reason I'm still in Dag 100% is because I really, really like shield-bashing. If SCA allowed it, or EMP was on the East Coast, y'all knaves would only see my dust cloud as I ride my merchant caravan into the sunset. That's exactly what we're saying. Dag peeps grow up. We get better jobs and savings accounts. We start getting married and having kids. Those spouses and Dag-babies NEED SHIT TO DO while we drink mead and participate in some ultra-violence. If there's nothing to interest our families, then the number of events we attend will get smaller and smaller until we join a different organization, or quit medievalism entirely.
Chris-What do you want? Lol you can do whatever you want. Start it up. I do think kids activities should continue to get better but it's happening slowly.
Chris-Why can't they stay home? But like Craig said what do I know? Lol
Mike-There are things that I love about SCA and there are things that I love about Dag/Bel. I prefer the fighting in Dag/Bel, pretty much because I'm older and wearing all that armor hurts my knees. I like that I can throw on a tunic, go out on a field, and beat on nerds with foam. It is fun, It is simple. I'm not running off to the SCA but I do enjoy many of those people so I just cross game a bit.
Gamhain-Are you married? Try telling your wife you're going away for a weekend every month and leaving her alone with the kids so you can go get drunk and play dress-up.
Nik- Mike I really think there's room for everyone. I started playing at 18 in college and was totally broke. And that's OK. I don't ask people to contribute past what they can responsibly do. It took me 10 years of learning new skills and hustling side jobs to get into my dream kit. Or if you want to party and fight, that's fine. More power to you. The problem is that the 20-something stick jock crowd seems almost adamantly against any efforts to improve the game or to add content beyond that level. You have people with zero interest in making an immersive or even interactive experience for fellow players. They just want to get out and hit people with sticks to show how awesome they are at stick-hitting. Some of them even go out of the way to NOT look period and try to pass it off as "safety" and "fantasy", with little basis in either.
Finney-Gamhain; the solution is simple. If she has a hobby you're not invested in, make it a point to give her a kids-free weekend so that she can pursue it in peace. You both get your hobbies, you're not making each other endure boredom for the sake of the other
Gamhain-^ Dag has a lot of intentional douchebags.... Dagbags? Douchorhir?
Nik-Entire units devoted to not looking fantasy or medieval. Maybe they're worried about looking like nerds while they hit people with foam swords.
Nik-I'm not married cause I don't deal with that. I think two people should want the other to do what makes them happy. Call me crazy lol but more power to you. That compromise sounds about right though.
Chris-Ha I also get real life interferes with plans so I'm speaking very generally. We can't help who we love.
Nik-Finney are you married with kids?
Mike-There are douchebags in every game from the table top to the field. Trust me I've played in most of them. LARP, Amtgard, SCA, Belegarth, Dagorhir, Mind-eye theater, Dungeons and Dragons, shadow run, White wolf, and rifts just to name a few. I've been rolling dice and swinging fake swords most of my life. I love the adventure. I don't think that it is to much to ask that there be something there for my family to love as well.
Finney-Engaged and living with for the last four years with young (5 and 10) step-kids in the house, so... yes?
Chris- Like what? Game night? Kids activities? I'm asking for solutions now not the problem
Mike-I am a nerd and proud of it. I think that non-nerds are usually pretty boring.
Chris- I agree
Finney-Logic dictates that if you want to participate in a hobby that your significant other doesn't enjoy, you should be willing to reciprocate and take the burden off of them so that they can engage in their hobbies, too. Being married with kids isn't the end of having fun, compromise exists. That being said, I understand not wanting to be separated two weekends a month and wanting to draw in your spouse and spend more time with them doing what you enjoy. But you can't force anybody to enjoy everything you do, and when that's the case... compromise! Yaaaaay, I did it y'all, I figured it out. Pack up and go home.
Mike-Well every cultural change begins with a change in thought. First we need to quit thinking that all there is, is bashing people with foam. Second we can make baby steps in the right direction. It won't happen over night.
Nik-Maybe your family is different. For mine, weekends are when we get to see each other. That means we both end up doing things sometimes that aren't our favorite so that we can spend time together. If there are activities available that make the time more interesting for the other person, it makes the day that much more enjoyable for everybody.
Chris-Like what? Lol examples? I'm thinking better children activities is where to start. Grown nerds can fend for themselves
Mike-And Finney you are correct being married involves compromising with your spouse. I get to go to a couple of events, She gets a couple of week ends at the spa or some shit. That is really kind of a separate issue. I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said add a couple of ren-faire type activities to make spouses and kids happy and boom everybody is happy. I think a lot of the responsibility for that is on the non-coms as well. Non-coms if all you want to do is sit around watching stick jocks fight and complain about how hot it is and how bored you are then you have to own some of that responsibility. Fighters be busy fighting. Non-coms need to step up and start doing some artsy-sciencey stuff.
Hawk-We have done a much better job of retention over the last few years, and thankfully we have also been seeing an increasing amount of noncoms. This is a good trend, I hope it keeps up. We have also increased the amount of purchasable goods for the people who have busy lives and would rather buy their gear than have to learn how to make everything themselves. All these trend add up to better retention. At least now, you don't have to be your own seamstress or foamsmith to play.
Mike-I have noticed a lot more merchants at events. That is a good sign. Non-coms love to shop. Well at least my non-com does. Oh my poor empty wallet.
Rap-I'm here for the music.
Chris-A lot of times when a spouse/partner gets brought into the Medieval/Fantasy world, they're not aware of all the things that can entail. So those of us with knowhow giving demonstrations can help get them interested. I have so many side hobbies that sprung out of Dag. Woodworking, leatherworking, embroidery, there's all kinds of stuff out there that people may not realize they can do or know how it ties in.
Nik-And some of it you can even do and make money! Yay money!
Gamhain- I recently got elected VP of Taurendor, which is great because that means I'm directly responsible for helping to plan and organize realm events.
Next season, the plan is to host a weekend campout with killer battles and non-com activities.
Got to be the change you wish to see
Garren-We play judo in Dag
Kyle-Nerd dramThere are small differences in weapon dimensions and weight minimums. Bel has a tiered grappling system for armored fighters. Dag requires you keep one foot on the ground during shield kicks. Bel has no healing component. It's all little stuff.
Tiffini-Dagorhirim have a better name for their "camp followers" - Dagorhoes
Joe-Nerd drama, nerd politics, people who have power still being butthurt about things that butthurt them years ago /thread
Shane-The real answer? Your location, that's about it. East coast is Dag, west is Bel
Joe-Midwest is mecca of all fighting
Tiffini-Hey! This is unmod! No serious answers here! tongue emotico
Garren-^exactly
Shane-Guts speaks truth.
Tiffini-On a serious note, though, as someone who cross-games both, the differences are very minor. Grappling rules are different (them: equal armor can initiate grapple, us: any armor at all cannot initiate grapple). There's two or three others, but I can't remember them right now.
Joe-Once upon a time, a guy and his people wanted more power in the determination of Dag. He tried pushing his will through a cult of personality. Another guy, who happened to be running Dag, took great offense and sought to quell the issues. Shit escalated.
Dexter-Dagorhir is a fighting game with a drinking problem; Belegarth is a drinking game with a fighting problem. Both of them, however, are gay and you should avoid them at all costs.
Finney-One is xenophobic, the other has well-organized knighthood groups. They both have terrible garb.
Ryan-my unit completely shreds your theory apart
Ben-It's like the SCA had mentally retarded children and they squabble
Dexter-Carinhold is just in the wrong game Brodash.
Dexter-And Amptgard is just their lesbian little sister
Shane- It's true, Cairnhold would have a shit load of fun fighting the Uruk-Hai or the EBF.
Ryan-Sorry we were too drunk and ended up here
Ashley-Amptgard is the major different one
John- play them all and just be good despite the rules (I in fact do not play them all)
Chan-Be more specific.Rules differences, geography, common game types. What are we talking here.
Spencer-They're both not Amptgard, so what does it matter?
John-Dagorhir has more beards. Belegarth has more quick tubes
Hawk-They are basically the same game, the fund is over but some folks don't know that yet.
Dexter-Why can't weee be friends? Why can't weee be friends?
Julian-Minimal rules differences. The rest is geographical, regardless of game. There are hardcore fighting units in both games, just as there are hardcore partying units in both. Main thing is where you live. There is a certain style to fighting on the east
Josh-There is also a difference in tactics, bel tends to focus on being a good single fighter while dag tends to focus on having the best unit that works together. Flails seem to be more common in bel than in dag but that's more of a regional thing. Both groups are ill informed of the other on average.
Chris-The biggest difference is Dagorhir doesn't feel the need to constantly remind Bel it exists on their boards.
Nathan-Facebook killed the feud. Back in the day Dag put a block on PMs for members for fear that Bel would steal all Dag's members. Then we found Facebook and said fuck you. And (big surprise here) people still play Dag. Most involved in the split politics no longer hold any official position of power in DBGA. Bel doesn't have power in the same way anyway.
Steve-The big difference is that nobody really freaking cares and there are maybe two or three rules differences that actually influences play. Spear Flex in one game is 45 while the other is 90, Shield Checking Quadrant(???) is slightly different (rear checking? I don't remember halp), and No Healing Poem in bel, as far as I remember.
Lindsay-For unmod, this has been surprisingly helpful.
Josh-Well Belegarth and Dagorhir are both Tolkien elvish (I think one is sindarin the other is wood elvish but don't quote me on that) and they both translate to "battle lord" The rules were written by the same guy for Pete's sake
Shannon-lets see what the "official" take is yeah? As of right now, the websites state that Dagorhir: combines fast-paced full-contact combat simulation with elements of live action role-playing. Dagorhir combines elements of both history and fantasy. Dagorhir is both a sport and a game. Dagorhir’s participants experience their fantasies on a variety of levels. where as belegarth is: Belegarth Medieval Combat Society is a fun, safe, and inexpensive sport where participants wear medieval or fantasy-themed clothing and fight with foam-padded weapons. So I guess one could say, the focus is different? /shrug.
Gam-Fought in both for years. Been a realm leader in both. The rule differences are arbitrary at most. The real difference is administrative. Dag is a regional oligarchy, Bel is parliamentary republic
John-more yelling in bel.. Dag nerds too quite on the field unless they are in positions of authority in a unit
Ryan-....you've never seen me....I ran around rag screaming I aint gay but i'll suck that dick for a solid two days of rag
Dan-Biggest difference is that Dag has a prolific unmod board.
Lane-The actual reason for the split was that Kegg and company insisted that Aratar and Graymael hand over their personal copyrights to the new Dagorhir board that they wanted to set up. Kegg was bent out of shape that the edition of the rules he spent all winter rewriting and organizing was just an edition/revision of Graymael's MoA.
Nathan-That's the Dag-positive version. The Dag-negative version is that Kegg was authorized to write a draft for a new charter, that got leaked prematurely before he'd edited it much (he copied the SCA charter), people went apeshit, Dag started imposing MORE
Steve-Oh, and the only thing I think I know of is you don't have to do Copyright Paper Bullshittery to form a Belegarth realm or something or use their name.
James-Culture is very different. Bel events have a lot more of individual groups hanging out and partying with their own. …
Khan-Stuff happened before 80% of fighters started fighting the games are the same. Oh wait, this is unmod..... Bel has real fighters and Dag is a bunch of RP queers (did I unmod correctly?)
Gamhain-Rule of thumb: Is there a foam fighting event nearby? Cool. Go to it, hit people, and drink beer.
Krista-What this guy said. ^^^
Mike-Not much the split was over politics and most people don't even remember why. The rules are virtually the same save for a few minor differences
Lane-"Sign away your copyrights or else we're picking up our toys and going home" isn't quite politics.
Tom-^Only one group is still so insecure as to have multiple primary-document, whiny essays still up
Hawk-It saddens me that people still harbor such strong feelings about it. No one involved in the whole shitstorm gets to wear a halo. Your point of view about who was the worse actor in all that mess tends to cloud things to fit your own narative.
Craig-They are both LARPs that have nothing for non fighters to do during the days at events?
Lane-Worst response yet ^^
Craig-This from a foam jockey that has no woman in thier life?^^
Lane-Actually, I have no ill will towards the people currently involved in the other game. But I'm no more likely to feel charitably towards its founders than I am towards Tom T. Hall.
Chris-lol Wtf
Craig-LMAO. Just truth in advertising Chris. If either of the groups had things for non fighters we might have more estrogen at events. I like estrogen. That's why I found a lady that does bardic, sews garb and enjoys the night life at events. I just wish my foam jockying had more for her to be interested in.
Shannon-confused_rev emoticon.... you want to have those activities to attract women...how about have those activities because they're cool. also, Rag did a pretty good job of having activities for this, IMO, but I'm not a non-com. /shrug
Chris-Ha Living the dream.. the games which aren't larps are about fighting. Women can be amazing fighters as well and not only is this proven by the badass women I know in game but throughout history. If a girl or guy doesn't want to play that's fine too
Craig-Yes Shannon Rag did a good job of that but that is one event in how many? And I want those activities to draw in ANY non fighter that might have fun in the group. I personally am more than just a fighter. I brew. I make cordials as well. Mat, you are following the belief that the game is just fighting. There is much more to the game than swinging foam. Or am I wrong and believing the foam fighters are more than just dumb grunts?
Mike-I have friends on both side and attend events held by both groups. The rules are virtually the same. There are good people and assholes in both groups. The reasons for the split are before my time.
Chris-Craig there are plenty of games that focus on larpy stuff. I suggest playing those for the extras you want. Dag has always been about fighting and I don't see an issue with it. In fact the extras kinda stagnate our growth amongst mundanes who would sword fight but don't want to play dress up. I feel the activities we currently have are great and any extra would set us back.
Chris-Also your individual unit is free to delve as deep into whatever you can think of so where there is a will there is a way
Craig-Okay. I get what the majority seems to feel. I will treat it appropriately and only attend local fighter practices as a way of getting some excercise. Pity that I only get one outlet for my creativity.
Lane-Craig, both games have their share of stick jocks and those who want more. I wouldn't turn my back on either one.
Finney-Craig, let the non-coms make activities for themselves. There's no magic button, if somebody isn't interested, they're not interested. A class on how to embroider like a proper lady isn't going to change that. If you have to drag your significant other..
Matt-Wtf are you talking about i never said its just about fighting lol dont put words in my mouth fucktard
Shannon-in general I fall on the stick-jock side of the debate, but I DO think great artwork (and brewing!) should be a part of our games. I think the issue comes from the "tranditional LARP" v. "combat game/LARP" expectations. Our game doesn't i..
Craig-Weekend chill and grills are some of the best parties. An herbal dying session was a blast.
Mike- I can see both sides of the discussion. A larger proportion of people go to events because they want to fight and party. If they didn't find that when they got there then that event would cease to exist. Hell the game is in large part about the fighting. Its fun, it is good exercise, and most of the people who come are like family. I also realize that not everyone enjoys the same things. I have a wife and she thinks that we are a bunch of nerds beating on one another with foam. She won't come to an event with me because she doesn't want the kids around drunks. I'm sure that she is not alone in that opinion. I guess the best way of dealing with this is for the non-coms to build their own community that does things that non-coms like to do. I think a lot of units try to accomplish this and at events I've seen contests awarding prizes for non-com skills.
Hawk-Personally, I feel as though we should all be trying to figure out ways to entertain noncoms, while this is a fighting game, fighters with significant others who don't fight, fall out because their mate has no interest. It's more of a retention thing. The better we do at including noncoms the better overall retention is for the sport.
Gamhain-^ THANK YOU. I fight. I merchant. I drink like a viking. But my wife and kid are bored to tears at events, and as any married person will tell you, it's not realistic to expect to go to many weekend-long events when your family doesn't want to go with you.
Jake-We could always pull more focus to the arts and sciences. Or we could gather some coin and raise some bleachers for the onlookers to have a proper seating. (that'd be pretty great, especially for photographers and familys)
Gamhain-A&S idea is more what I was thinking. Give non-coms some actual activities to engage in, rather than just getting a sunburn while their SO dork-fights.s Masque Beltannia does this spectacularly. They have maypole dances, balefires, May Queen pageant, dancing, games…. If you take Dagorhir, and add even just a DASH of Ren-Faire activities, we will bring in (and keep) SO many more people.
Nik-Have you watched nerds fight? It's not that interesting if you aren't a fighter yourself. "Gather some coin" LOL you're talking to the wrong group. Mention a $3 hike in Rag fees and people lose their shit and say attendance will plummet.
Jake-Yeah it's pretty pathetic. People en masse' don't seem to want to put any money towards their hobby.
Nik-There's a reason that SCA maintains members for decades, it's because there's shit to do other than wreck and poison your body. Mind you, there's plenty of wrecking and poisoning. But at the end of the day that's only so fulfilling.
Jake-I totally agree. There is, and can be, so much more to this culture that can, and should, be separately focused on. We can only lead by example though and I feel like in small steps we're kind of getting towards that, in some cases. For instance, and I know these are small things, plastidipping, That was rare 5 years ago now we're stepping up our game in that regard. That and some campsites are really putting their best foot forward to improving the look and feel of the game. Certainly we can't crack the whip but I think we can all take these notes to heart and lead by example. Improve your game. Get gud, and more will follow.
Mike-I agree with that statement. I only make it to about 3 events a year basically because that is about the max I can get away with without pissing off my spouse. She doesn't come because its boring for her, but she does like going to rent-faires with me. Throw in a maypole dance for the kids, maybe have a crafting class for the non-coms, have some live music and bam everybody is happy. Like Gamhain said it is about retention. A lot of us have spouses and we want them to be happy and have fun as well I don't see this happening over night and to be honest it will probably be units that start us in the right direction. But baby steps in the right direction and we can make it a better atmosphere for everyone that loves the game.
Nik- I think you're right to an extent. Seeing units like Sowerwine, Germania, Rome, or Frostblade really inspires people to do better. But there's also a huge backlash of people that are vehemently against putting in any effort whatsoever to make this game look good.
Gamhain-^ That's also the reason alot of folk in Dag / Bel wind up going to the SCA. The only event my wife has ever enjoyed was Masque Beltannia, because there was shit for her to do. ...If I went SCA, I know she'd come to more events (and thus more events I myself could attend) because there are games, dancing, arts and crafts, classes....One of the reasons Dag is so slow to improve -in any/all aspects- is because we only seem to cater to the broke, semi-alcoholic 20-something demographic. While the people who get older, have more disposable income, and start having kids who WOULD get into Dag, are moving to groups who have a focus on more than just "git drunk n hit stuff”
Nik-Dag is currently viewed, even by some of the leadership, as a game for brokeass 20-somethings who have no interest in medieval history or really even in the fantasy literature the game was based upon to begin with. They write off their min-effort concessionary garb as "fantasy" without basis so they can come hit people with sticks and get alcohol poisoning. Then they talk shit about people that are interested in making the game something more than that. I love the game dynamic, the speed and intensity of it. I love the people I've grown up with in the game. But honestly at 28 sometimes I have a very hard time shaking the feeling that I've outgrown it. Once you have a family and a savings account, grubby wrap pants and hangovers lose their appeal. There needs to be more content, and their are people willing to make that happen. We should encourage them.
Mike-Here is the thing when people are young, unattached college age then many of them want to do is party and fight. There is nothing wrong with that. I was the same way at that age. But then people get families, jobs, responsibilities. They also get experience, resources, and know how. We need to retain people with resources and know how to mentor the fun loving stick jocks and to keep the ball rolling. I love that the game is available to everyone. One of my big turn offs for SCA is that is takes a sizable financial investment to immerse yourself into it. But I still think that we can do more than just be stick jocks.
Gamhain-Only real reason I'm still in Dag 100% is because I really, really like shield-bashing. If SCA allowed it, or EMP was on the East Coast, y'all knaves would only see my dust cloud as I ride my merchant caravan into the sunset. That's exactly what we're saying. Dag peeps grow up. We get better jobs and savings accounts. We start getting married and having kids. Those spouses and Dag-babies NEED SHIT TO DO while we drink mead and participate in some ultra-violence. If there's nothing to interest our families, then the number of events we attend will get smaller and smaller until we join a different organization, or quit medievalism entirely.
Chris-What do you want? Lol you can do whatever you want. Start it up. I do think kids activities should continue to get better but it's happening slowly.
Chris-Why can't they stay home? But like Craig said what do I know? Lol
Mike-There are things that I love about SCA and there are things that I love about Dag/Bel. I prefer the fighting in Dag/Bel, pretty much because I'm older and wearing all that armor hurts my knees. I like that I can throw on a tunic, go out on a field, and beat on nerds with foam. It is fun, It is simple. I'm not running off to the SCA but I do enjoy many of those people so I just cross game a bit.
Gamhain-Are you married? Try telling your wife you're going away for a weekend every month and leaving her alone with the kids so you can go get drunk and play dress-up.
Nik- Mike I really think there's room for everyone. I started playing at 18 in college and was totally broke. And that's OK. I don't ask people to contribute past what they can responsibly do. It took me 10 years of learning new skills and hustling side jobs to get into my dream kit. Or if you want to party and fight, that's fine. More power to you. The problem is that the 20-something stick jock crowd seems almost adamantly against any efforts to improve the game or to add content beyond that level. You have people with zero interest in making an immersive or even interactive experience for fellow players. They just want to get out and hit people with sticks to show how awesome they are at stick-hitting. Some of them even go out of the way to NOT look period and try to pass it off as "safety" and "fantasy", with little basis in either.
Finney-Gamhain; the solution is simple. If she has a hobby you're not invested in, make it a point to give her a kids-free weekend so that she can pursue it in peace. You both get your hobbies, you're not making each other endure boredom for the sake of the other
Gamhain-^ Dag has a lot of intentional douchebags.... Dagbags? Douchorhir?
Nik-Entire units devoted to not looking fantasy or medieval. Maybe they're worried about looking like nerds while they hit people with foam swords.
Nik-I'm not married cause I don't deal with that. I think two people should want the other to do what makes them happy. Call me crazy lol but more power to you. That compromise sounds about right though.
Chris-Ha I also get real life interferes with plans so I'm speaking very generally. We can't help who we love.
Nik-Finney are you married with kids?
Mike-There are douchebags in every game from the table top to the field. Trust me I've played in most of them. LARP, Amtgard, SCA, Belegarth, Dagorhir, Mind-eye theater, Dungeons and Dragons, shadow run, White wolf, and rifts just to name a few. I've been rolling dice and swinging fake swords most of my life. I love the adventure. I don't think that it is to much to ask that there be something there for my family to love as well.
Finney-Engaged and living with for the last four years with young (5 and 10) step-kids in the house, so... yes?
Chris- Like what? Game night? Kids activities? I'm asking for solutions now not the problem
Mike-I am a nerd and proud of it. I think that non-nerds are usually pretty boring.
Chris- I agree
Finney-Logic dictates that if you want to participate in a hobby that your significant other doesn't enjoy, you should be willing to reciprocate and take the burden off of them so that they can engage in their hobbies, too. Being married with kids isn't the end of having fun, compromise exists. That being said, I understand not wanting to be separated two weekends a month and wanting to draw in your spouse and spend more time with them doing what you enjoy. But you can't force anybody to enjoy everything you do, and when that's the case... compromise! Yaaaaay, I did it y'all, I figured it out. Pack up and go home.
Mike-Well every cultural change begins with a change in thought. First we need to quit thinking that all there is, is bashing people with foam. Second we can make baby steps in the right direction. It won't happen over night.
Nik-Maybe your family is different. For mine, weekends are when we get to see each other. That means we both end up doing things sometimes that aren't our favorite so that we can spend time together. If there are activities available that make the time more interesting for the other person, it makes the day that much more enjoyable for everybody.
Chris-Like what? Lol examples? I'm thinking better children activities is where to start. Grown nerds can fend for themselves
Mike-And Finney you are correct being married involves compromising with your spouse. I get to go to a couple of events, She gets a couple of week ends at the spa or some shit. That is really kind of a separate issue. I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said add a couple of ren-faire type activities to make spouses and kids happy and boom everybody is happy. I think a lot of the responsibility for that is on the non-coms as well. Non-coms if all you want to do is sit around watching stick jocks fight and complain about how hot it is and how bored you are then you have to own some of that responsibility. Fighters be busy fighting. Non-coms need to step up and start doing some artsy-sciencey stuff.
Hawk-We have done a much better job of retention over the last few years, and thankfully we have also been seeing an increasing amount of noncoms. This is a good trend, I hope it keeps up. We have also increased the amount of purchasable goods for the people who have busy lives and would rather buy their gear than have to learn how to make everything themselves. All these trend add up to better retention. At least now, you don't have to be your own seamstress or foamsmith to play.
Mike-I have noticed a lot more merchants at events. That is a good sign. Non-coms love to shop. Well at least my non-com does. Oh my poor empty wallet.
Rap-I'm here for the music.
Chris-A lot of times when a spouse/partner gets brought into the Medieval/Fantasy world, they're not aware of all the things that can entail. So those of us with knowhow giving demonstrations can help get them interested. I have so many side hobbies that sprung out of Dag. Woodworking, leatherworking, embroidery, there's all kinds of stuff out there that people may not realize they can do or know how it ties in.
Nik-And some of it you can even do and make money! Yay money!
Gamhain- I recently got elected VP of Taurendor, which is great because that means I'm directly responsible for helping to plan and organize realm events.
Next season, the plan is to host a weekend campout with killer battles and non-com activities.
Got to be the change you wish to see
Chris-Get yo Gandhi on
Gamhain-Gamhain
Nik- It's the community's responsibility to be it's own caretaker if we ever want to see it grow. Fighters are the ones bringing in noncoms most of the time, they rarely just show up and start sitting on the sideline. And they're the ones that help make it so we can spend more time fighting by making our garb, weapons and armor, or running our merch booths or troll.
Hawk-While entertaining noncoms is no ones job but noncoms, it does not mean that we should do what we can to facilitate their enjoyment. It is in everyone's, including fighters who want to fill a field with veteran fighters, to want to attract noncoms. Otherwise your field runs as a revolving door and your field is full of rookie kids.
Finney-Hmm. I agree with that (being the change an' stuff). smile emoticon I guess I'm perplexed by the idea of adults having to have entertainment provided for them, I agree with the sentiment that grown nerds can fend for themselves (I mean, all I have to do is grab a book or my DS if I know I won't be fighting and I'm fine, though to be honest I spend most of my time in conversation). Activities for children would be nice, but it's up to an adult who's willing to spend their free time and possibly money to put it together. I personally have no problem with babysitting during an event, but when I bring the young ones out I don't expect anybody except for me to be responsible for them, potential boredom and all. Which is why I plan ahead and make sure that they have books and toys... And you know, making a kid tear their eyes away from a screen to go play tag isn't too bad, either.
Or just get them addicted before they know it isn't cool, give 'em a sword and let them go at it. Make a Little League for Dagorhir, get everybody to bring out their kids and then watch the chaos in the Tyke Pit.
Got to be the change you wish to see
Shannon-^^ the solution to long term retention is a youth league.
I disagree there, Hawk - I think it's the event organizer's job to facilitate enjoyment for the event-goers. That means more than just battles.
Yes, combat is the primary focus and purpose of Dagorhir BATTLE Games, but organizers for weekend campout events should at least put some thought and effort into non-com activities.
Chris- Its been done before kinda but fell off. I'd be down to help. But it should be early before the days fighting begins or right after. I used to teach kids bjj and Mma classes but the favorite activity was always sword fighting. Always the highlight of my day lol
Hawk- I agree Gamhain, and I thought that was what I was saying.
Gamhain-Re-reading your comment, that is indeed what you said. Misread the first time around.
Patrick-Shit guys, resolving your conflicts in a reasonable and grown-up way? Get the fuck outta Unmod, we don't do that here.
Mike-ROFLMAO gods laughed so hard I almost peed myself Patrick
Sasha-speaking as a non-com, on one hand it IS the non-coms' responsibility to organise things for us to do.
on the other hand, it's awfully hard to do that without backing from the Event Organiser. i'm pretty bloody forward about things but i'm leery to announce on an Event Page that i'll teach a class if my private message asking the Event Coordinator's permission went unanswered. it would seem awfully rude of me. i've seen people forge ahead and try to hold a class that ended up clashing with Feast or some other event-sponsored activity, so we don't like to do that.also, like i said, i'm pretty outgoing and forward as an individual. moreso than most people. most people won't write that message to the Event Organiser in the first place. if the Event Organiser doesn't want to arrange those activities themself, it would help a LOT if they'd put out a call saying "LOOKING FOR TEACHERS" and start that dialogue. all they have to do is put out the call so folks know that's wanted at that event and we'll make it happen. they can help by saying "This event site features a pavilion." or "The best time for classes would be X-Y [before, during, or after battles]." that would help a lot but they don't even have to do that much. the Event Organiser saying "LOOKING FOR TEACHERS" not only calls out anyone who wants to teach, anyone who wants to attend classes, but it says in no uncertain terms "This is desired at this event." thus quelling nay-sayers before they can discourage anyone. you'd be surprised what a difference that very simple statement can make.
Mike-Well I've seen that a lot just from broaching the topic. There are a lot of stick jocks that want to keep it a stick jock game.
Sasha-but if the Event Coordinator has said "There will be classes." what are they going ot say? and who will listen to them?
and, frankly, this thread is the most of that i've seen at all. i see folks saying "No one will attend classes." but that's different than saying "Don't hold/attend classes.”
Mike-i think progress can be slow but it will be non existent if no one tries
Chris- If you build it they will come. Sucks putting your neck out but use fb to network and get a few for sures and a few maybes. If you deliver the net year will be bigger.
Sasha-really, saying you don't want classes at your events is like saying you don't want merchants. it doesn't make any sense. you have no interest? don't patronise them.
Mike- There will always be a mix of people who are interested and people who are not no matter what you do.
Gamhain - I'm a big believer in the "if you build it, they will come"
War of Forbidding in Idaho gets bigger and bigger every year, because they have cool shit other than the fighting.
--------------
They have the best gladiator tournament I've ever seen.
- The entire event watches and bets on the fights.
- If the Emperor (realm leader) thinks you put on a good show, you get the Cesar's thumbs up and you stay in the tournament.
- It's not just about fighting and beating your opponent, it's about showmanship.
-------------------
They have heavy iron tokens that they use as event currency, which you can redeem at the pub (for keg beer) or at the Trading Post for trinkets.
You can earn these by doing service to the event, winning games like ring toss, Battle-shots, tournaments, craft contests....
------------------
They attract tons of people, especially folk with spouses / families, because of the games, activities, and non-combat stuff.
Step up your game, Dag.
Sasha- i just went to Pennsic. i brought a friend who's been in the SCA for ten years and had only been to fighter events. he says he doesn't want to learn to play an instrument or to dance, he wants to be really good at hitting people with sticks. what's that? yeah, he's a stick jock. [and we're friends! gasp! stick jocks and non-coms hanging out together? i thought that's not possible!]
he didn't attend any classes but he came with me to parties every night and a few late afternoon/evening events and had a great time. said it was the best event he's been to.
he didn't attend any classes but he came with me to parties every night and a few late afternoon/evening events and had a great time. said it was the best event he's been to.
meanwhile, the fighters clinking and clanking their way tot eh field woke me up every morning, so i saw them off, then grabbed some fruit for breakfast and headed off to classes. most of which were dance or music classes, so i can get better at partying and performing all night long.
he said his normal pattern after showering and getting something to eat was reading in his tent for a few hours, then drinking with his camp, then going to bed. he was much happier with parties and performances to attend. so the stick jock benefitted from the non-coms' activities! imagine!
he said his normal pattern after showering and getting something to eat was reading in his tent for a few hours, then drinking with his camp, then going to bed. he was much happier with parties and performances to attend. so the stick jock benefitted from the non-coms' activities! imagine!
Mike-See this proves a point for the stick jock nay sayers that like to party. If the non-coms learn to dance and play music it makes the party all that much better. If old guys like me become better brewers it makes better brew to drink. It is a win win.
Sasha-and what do dancers and musicians like while we perform? good brew to drink! if you'r ebroke but want to hire performers, can you pay with good brew? absolutely!
also, being a fighter, he tore some of his fighting garb during the week. he can't sew and refuses to try to learn. so rather than fixing it himself, he bought me dinner and drinks to do it for him. it probably would have been better for all parties, and certainly cheaper for him, had he been able to do it himself, but i won't complain about being treated to meals.
Gamhain-I'm going to bust my ass to organize a killer Taurendor event for the spring.
Only time will tell if I fall flat on my face.
Sasha-keep in mind, Gates of Fire is traditionally the last weekend of April. two weeks between campouts is a good buffer, most people can't swing just one week apart.
also, do everything you can to get Cainrhold Legion there. right, Ryan? smile emoticon
Mike-I'm amazed and amused that this thread has A lasted this long and B changed it tone in such a positive way.
Gamhain- Well, if I have my way there will be:
- Killer battles hosted by the Order of Tauren
- A delicious feast that isn't Walmart rotisserie chickens
- Awards during feast for Best Camp, Best Garb and Most Improved Noob
- Non-Combat contests like an A&S, Bardic, and Shield Art.
- Belly dance class (if scheinman comes / consents)
- Killer battles hosted by the Order of Tauren
- A delicious feast that isn't Walmart rotisserie chickens
- Awards during feast for Best Camp, Best Garb and Most Improved Noob
- Non-Combat contests like an A&S, Bardic, and Shield Art.
- Belly dance class (if scheinman comes / consents)
Mike-I love it fantastic ideas
Gamhain- I'm a huge proponent of recognizing good camps, good garb, and new folk who bust their ass -in training or in gearing up-\
Ryan-the day we come to gates or badon again is the day you move it from the shitty site
Nik- Gamhain is one of our good ones, Gods show him favor.
Mike-Shield art because even some stick jocks have an artistic side.
Gamhain-Believe it or not, I'm a stick jock as well. I love fighting, and I come to events to blast the shit out of people.
...I just love dressing like a Jarl and seeing other folks as invested in their camps and kits as I am
Lindsay-We would be game to teach a leather working class, but no one ever asks.
Nik-But you can't look good and fight good. Ask anybody, they're mutually exclusive. The better your kit, the more you need to git good and stop being salty.
Mike-I love to fight, I love to drink, I also make armor, paint, brew, and tell tale tails with the best of them.
Gamhain-^ You're in my contact list, I will definitely be getting ahold of you.
So what I'm hearing, Mike, is that a homebrew competition needs to be part of the event, too?
Noted.
Mike- Nik, I might not fight all that great but you can bet when I tell that story the guy I beat was 10 feet tall and built like Batista.
and Hells yes great fighting is the life's blood of this game. Without that everyone might as well sit at home and play xbox
Mike-And yes Gamhain a home brew contest is definitely a good idea
Gamhain- Fighters are the heart of Dag, yes. Non-coms are the brain….
They're the ones who cook the feasts, run the merchant booths, dance around the fire, and play the songs that keep us drinking until 4am.
Mike- It is a symbiotic relationship wink emoticon
Monday, August 10, 2015
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