Thursday, January 29, 2015

The Eye, Hand, and Knee Protection Debate

The Eye, Hand, and Knee Protection Debate

I recently started a discussion on our Facebook Page Louisville Belegarth about the need for eye, knee, and hand protection during fighting. I have worked in construction for many years, I have a family and I can tell you that a serious injury can be life changing not just for me but for anyone. I have seen some pretty terrible things happen to people doing construction work. It is a dangerous business and it is a business often associated with people that regularly wear safety gear like hardhats, safety glasses, reflective vests, etc. There is a reason for that. This type of equipment has proven effective at reducing the severity of injury and/or preventing it entirely. Below is my original post on Facebook as well as the response of all of my very talented and competitive friends that I fight with in Belegarth. Please share your opinion. It is my hope that this will at least raise awareness and that I will start seeing more players using safety equipment in the future.

Just a point of discussion, but I think that it would be a good idea if Belegarth required players to wear eye, hand, and knee protection while fighting. I just wanted to see how other players feel about this idea.
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    2 people like this.
  • Benjamin Eldridge Hand and Knee protection you could implement fairly easily. Eye protection would be where you might run into resistance, given that no medieval society that I'm aware of regularly used safety goggles.
    January 23 at 7:59am · Like
  • Michael Sauls I wear safety glasses. They don't cost that much and they've saved me from pain many times. Every time I've gotten hit in the eye it was because I took off my glasses. They make them in a shaded lens and I see a lot of people wear sun glasses anyway. I know it doesn't look very medieval but it is just a game and playing it safe is a higher priority in my book. Added note they also make a clear lens with uv protection on it that I like a lot. I've been considering switching to this for practice because I know being the guy in sun glasses all the time makes you look like a stick jockey.
    January 23 at 8:17am · Edited · Like
  • Michael Sauls For hand protection I wear motocross gloves that I got from motorcycle superstore for $7 and for knee protection I bought some roller blade knee and elbow pads for $15 on clearance. I don't think that this needs to be a large expense but just ask Joey Fehribach how much surgery on his hand cost when he broke his finger and damaged the tendons in his hand. Just saying a small investment in some safety equipment could save you thousands in medical expenses.
    January 23 at 8:26am · Edited · Like · 1
  • Andy Schwartz Recommend, not require. I already have an issue with shades being worn under the guise of eye protection at events, largely by certain unnamed groups. Requirements add cost to what should be an inexpensive hobby. Still, many fighters who stick around long enough to be veterans WILL advise you that knee and hand protection is highly valued. Both can be done without obvious modern equipment being visible.
    January 23 at 9:46am · Like · 3
  • Lee Oriley Coach i know you have that hand problem (so we bought tou a pair of LaCrosse gloves )sibce you seemed to like them at yule
    January 23 at 11:24am · Like
  • Adrian Seeley I agree with coach, requiring them is unnecessary given the safety perameters placed on our weapons. Plus, optional hand and knee protection can be made to look period or hiddeb from view in the case of kneepads. I go out on the field realizing theres a small ppssibility i might get hurt. If i want to protect my face and eyes, ill wear a helmet.
    January 23 at 1:43pm · Like · 1
  • Michael Sauls My point is this that even with our weapon construction people still get hit in the eye a lot. Thus far I haven't seen a serious eye injury but I have seen people hurt bad enough that they had to stop play until their eyes stop watering. Secondarily there is no way to guarantee that the playing field is free of debris, trash, etc. All it would take is one rock, stick or piece of trash kicked up in the chaos of battle or fallen upon for someone to end up with a serious injury. A broken finger is bad enough but losing an eye would be a disaster. Although you would have an excuse to wear a cool eye patch to events after that.
    January 23 at 7:00pm · Like
  • Michael Sauls Adrian I consider a helmet like yours to be eye protection. You only have a narrow gap that anything can enter to get at your eyes.
    January 23 at 7:01pm · Like
  • Ben Torm von Behren In Numenor we require everyone that is a regular fighter (ie show up to fight more than once a month) to sign waivers.
    O agree that the parameters that our weapons are built to limits the possibility of serious ibjury.
    However Any sport there are inher    ent risks involved. We can throw ourselves into a giant bubble and still potentially be hurt.
    We are essentially beating each other woth no more than foam covered sticks...
    To many of us that is where the fun lies. That we can full force hit one another without serious 

    injury. To *require safety gear i feel takes away from the great simplicisty of picking up a sword and beat the person next to you.
    January 23 at 7:24pm · Like · 1
  • Ben Torm von Behren Also i have seen where hitt taking becomes a problem when people wear said safety equipment. In particukar Knee pads, gloves, even shin guards hinder peoples ability to take honest hits because they cant feel what would otherwise be considered "sufficient" force. Those types of safety gear are NOT armor. Lacross gloves essentially make your hand three times bigger than what it otherwise would be and someone that throws a shot for a forarm or even wrist more often than not now hits the hulk sized glove and calls "hand on weapon" which
    January 23 at 7:31pm · Like
  • Anthony Maou-Sama Huey Oddly enough I actually received one of the worse head injuries I've incurred yet as a result of wearing glasses; had a blow come straight down my noggin (had cloth burn on my nose for a week!!) and drive the bridge of my glasses into my nose, slicing it open pretty good. I do value my eyes heavily, but I wouldn't want to suffer through that again. Hand and knee protection I whole-heartedly agree with, but I started making sturdier hilts and hand guards for a reason. Haha.
    January 24 at 11:31am · Edited · Like
  • Michael Sauls were they safety glasses though?
    January 24 at 11:46am · Like
  • Anthony Maou-Sama Huey Safety glasses have a rubber rim. They were shades, I'll admit. So they weren't exact meant for activity like that. My main concern is having the lenses shatter in my eyes. I've seen something similar happen before. It's very rare, but that glasses incident was my only eye/face injury after five years of playing. For someone like yourself who has had more eye injuries, it's totally justified to want preventative gear, so I totally understand where you're coming from.
    January 24 at 11:49am · Edited · Like
  • Michael Sauls It isn't that I have had eye injuries. I've just spent many years working in construction. I've seen some pretty horrific injuries that could have been prevented if someone was wearing protective gear.
    January 24 at 11:52am · Like
  • Michael Sauls I don't want to sound like a stick in the mud. I love this game and I love the people who play it. I'd just like to make sure that we all go home safe having had fun. Many of you are young on here and haven't seen some of the things that I have. I've seen two different people lose their very lucrative careers in construction because hand injuries that resulted in damaged tendons and ligaments. If they had only been wearing gloves they wouldn't have happened. I know about a half a dozen people that had to have knee surgery. All of those people refused to wear knee pads when kneeling on concrete and steel grates to work. I have never seen anyone lose an eye, but I have seen many accidents that probably would have taken out an eye. I've seen bloodied noses and gashes across the face in the area of the eyes but the eyes were saved by hard hats and eye protection. And if I had a dollar for every time I've seen a small object like a screw, nut, a tool or bolt go flying because someone dropped it, kicked it, hit it, etc. I'd be a rich man. I realize that construction is significantly more dangerous than every day life, but we avoid a lot because we expect the possibility. We are aware of it happening and we wear protective gear. Most of the time when I see serious injury it is because someone wasn't wearing what they were supposed to. If nothing else I hope that this discussion has made some of you more aware of some of the risks that we put ourselves in and I start seeing a few more people consider safety gear.
    January 24 at 12:10pm · Like
  • Michael Sauls Oh and please don't feel like I'm trying to be mister doom and gloom.
    January 24 at 12:16pm · Like
  • Anthony Maou-Sama Huey I understand where you're coming from. I've suffered several injuries at the hands of my self-neglect and ignorance. Taking precautions is rewarding for sure. In the least, I highly recommend gloves and pass to avoid callouses, cuts, scrapes, hyper-extension, etc. Those are not particularly fun injuries.
    January 24 at 1:18pm · Like
  • David King Require no suggest sure your safety is your own we're not the gov we won't force you to were seat belts next thing you know we'll have to wear condoms and get permission to have kids. Not saying that's where your going with this but are you prepared to supply loner knee pads to people who walk up and want to play.
    January 25 at 10:17pm · Like
  • David King Back in 98 I was fighting at an Equinox in Nashville. In mid battle I was struck by an arrow in the chest. It didn't fall to the ground that's right some one had left the field point on there arrow when it hit me it stuck home thankfully I have the tendency to over build my armor other wise I would have caught it in the sturnum. All that to say I'll be the first to buy some cheap safety glasses and some knee pads to have them available but don't require it
    January 25 at 10:26pm · Edited · Like
  • Jesse Lee Chick Sorry again about the headshot Anthony Maou-Sama Huey
    January 27 at 9:44am · Like · 1
  • Kyle D. Eberle My eyes are VERY important to me and my profession and any injury to them would be terrible. I've really been thinking about wearing eye protection like racquetball eye gear. Frankly I don't give a damn as to what others think I look like, but know that an eye injury is a major issue. Nothing I want to chance. Sooo...heading into battle season, I feel it's necessary. Now...due to a wrist injury, I'm very worried about my wrist and protecting it. Lacrosse glove would be great...but it's soo sensitive even to any hit...it can take me out of the fight instantly. I've considered wearing a wrist brace. I've got construction kneepads I wear under my pants so knees are taken care of.
    19 hrs · Like

  • Michael Sauls Well said, Kyle D. Eberle. Much as my hands are VERY important to me as a construction worker. There is a myriad of options available to anyone interested in good eye protection and much of it is very affordable. A decent pair of safety glasses can be had for less than $10. If you look at various sports equipment then it is easy to find stuff designed to protect the eyes of people on the go that are sweating and moving around. I like motocross equipment, but take a look around any sporting goods store and I sure that you can find a solution that is comfortable, practical, and that won't break the budget.
    • Lee Oriley Fair enough to everyones thoughts .(good stuff from everyone ) i dont ever plan on wearing any protective gear .. but i understand why its such a big deal .
      January 29 at 12:19pm · Like
    • Adrian Seeley Id definitely do knee pads, and MAYBE gauntlets depending on my get up. Kneepads are a smart choice, and easily concealable.
      January 29 at 2:42pm · Like
    • Lee Oriley Yea knee pads are good i will admit that.. i wear lacrosse gloves not for protection but for the fact its hard for me to grip the handles and it works perfect for me ..
      January 29 at 2:46pm · Like
    • Kyle D. Eberle well...and you're weak. Grippy-Slippy (says the guy who always sends his weapon flying cause he can't hold onto it...moi!)
      January 29 at 2:57pm · Like
    • Lee Oriley Still beat your ass on the field
      January 29 at 3:19pm · Like
    • Joshua Saunders Everyone knows the dangers of the game. Just like other sports u take a chance stepping onto the field with or without. U can still get hurt with gear.
      Yesterday at 9:23am · Like · 2
    • Michael Sauls knowing the dangers is good reason to take precautions and protect yourself. Do you drive your car without wearing a seat belt? Do you go to the shooting range without wearing eye protection and ear plugs? It is just a matter of utilizing a little common sense. Yes you can get hurt wearing equipment but the equipment mitigates risk and reduces damage.
      Yesterday at 5:17pm · Edited · Like
    • Jesse Lee Chick But it must be the players choose
      23 hrs · Like · 2
    • Joshua Saunders Seat belts doesn't always saves u from injuries or death and the reason y i wear a seat belt is to avoid a ticket, i dont use ear plugs or eye protection when shooting guns, and i dont use gun ranges. Football players wear full protection and still get hurt. But getting smacked in the face or fingers dont feel good but happens in any full contact sport. Alot of nut shots too. Cups anyone? Lol.
      5 hrs · Like
    • Michael Sauls Again safety equipment is designed to mitigate risk and reduce the severity of injury. An accident in a car while wearing a seat belt can still result in injury but that same accident without the seat belt would likely be more severe. For example flyin...See More
      20 mins · Edited · Like
    • Lee Oriley Well the good thing is it is not... if i am hurt its my fault enough said ..
      14 mins · Like
    • Michael Sauls I just want to add that this has been a great discussion. There have been a lot of great comments on here. In fact it has been so interesting that I decided to post this discussion as an article in the guardian. Regardless of which side of the debate everyone comes down on I believe that discussions like this go a long way towards increasing awareness. Thank you every one for weighing in even if you disagree with my point of view. 
      3 mins · Like

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